Adding Marrison concept list #465

Wu-Urbanek · 2018-04-12T13:21:22Z

I added Marrison concept list and new glosses in the concepticon.tsv

tresoldi · 2018-04-12T13:28:32Z

You can always leave the PR open, don't worry. :) Closed PRs are supposed to not be opened again (like, wrong data, things we decide not to include anymore).

As I said, you need to add the concept to the concept lists.

LinguList · 2018-04-12T13:36:13Z

okay, this should be left open until all assigned reviewers reviewed. With me, it may have to wait until tomorrow. But nice that we are now already in the stage of looking into this, good work!

LinguList · 2018-04-12T13:37:09Z

concepticondata/concepticon.tsv

@@ -3142,3 +3142,11 @@ ID	GLOSS	SEMANTICFIELD	DEFINITION	ONTOLOGICAL_CATEGORY	REPLACEMENT_ID
 3146	CHEETAH	Animals	Wild Animal of the cat family with characteristic dark spots.	Person/Thing	
 3147	HAMSTER	Animals	Mouse-sized animal with large cheeks for storing food, often kept as a pet.	Person/Thing	
 3148	MEERKAT	Animals	Southern African animal known for its long tail and often seen standing up on its back legs.	Person/Thing	
+3149	ARMLET	Clothing and grooming	A band or bracelet worn round the upper part of a person's arm.	Person/Thing	
+3150	BOX OR CHEST	Modern world	Either a generic manmade object with space in it that is used to keep and store many various different objects, or a strong box with a lid on top.	Property	
+3151	CUT (WITH AXE)	Basic actions and technology	To slice or to divide into pieces with help of an axe.	Person/Thing	


did you check for "chop"? Not there?

Now I look up chop (def. : To cut meat, vegetables or fruits in very small pieces.)
But the cut (with axe) didn't indicate to cut into small pieces, so I add this new concept.
I can also link cut with axe to chop.

We already have so many words for "to cut" to make this one acceptable, too. We will however need to work on concept relations later -- I was just checking, not even WordNet is so specific (which makes sense, being English-centric after all).

okay, link to "CHOP" (http://concepticon.clld.org/parameters/155). The links are bad there, so maybe make an issue that CHOP 155 and CHOP (IN PIECES) 2149 (http://concepticon.clld.org/parameters/2149) should be reconsidered, etc. But for the time being, this is our best guess.

LinguList · 2018-04-12T13:37:51Z

concepticondata/concepticon.tsv

+3152	MUNTJACS	Animals	Also known as barking deer, a kind of small deer of the genus Muntiacus.	Person/Thing	
+3153	LORD	Social and political relations	A man of noble rank or high office; a nobleman.	Person/Thing	
+3154	WILD BOAR	Animals	Also known as wild pig, four-legged animal (Sus scrofa) living in the wild. 	Person/Thing	
+3155	TO	Preposition	expressing motion in the direction of (a particular location).	Other	


don't we have "towards"? I'd link to this, or at least consider lnking...

LinguList · 2018-04-12T13:38:56Z

concepticondata/concepticon.tsv

+3153	LORD	Social and political relations	A man of noble rank or high office; a nobleman.	Person/Thing	
+3154	WILD BOAR	Animals	Also known as wild pig, four-legged animal (Sus scrofa) living in the wild. 	Person/Thing	
+3155	TO	Preposition	expressing motion in the direction of (a particular location).	Other	
+3156	WELL (ADV)	Emotions and values	Something is in a good or satisfactory manner.	Property	


I don't know whether we should not better leave this unlinked? we have "good", this is similar, etc. and the ADVERB specification is not for a concept, so maybe consider deleting and leaving the entry unlinked for time being.

tresoldi · 2018-04-12T13:39:09Z

A couple of things:

your definitions are copied and pasted from the Oxford dictionaries, which are not free/open source. You have to either come up with your own by mixing sources, or use a free source (like Wiktionary)
there is something wrong about the line endings of concepticondata/conceptlists.tsv , LibreOffice is probably at fault here.
Mattis is already making comments on new concepts, he is fast on that. ;)

LinguList · 2018-04-12T13:39:55Z

concepticondata/concepticon.tsv

+3151	CUT (WITH AXE)	Basic actions and technology	To slice or to divide into pieces with help of an axe.	Person/Thing	
+3152	MUNTJACS	Animals	Also known as barking deer, a kind of small deer of the genus Muntiacus.	Person/Thing	
+3153	LORD	Social and political relations	A man of noble rank or high office; a nobleman.	Person/Thing	
+3154	WILD BOAR	Animals	Also known as wild pig, four-legged animal (Sus scrofa) living in the wild. 	Person/Thing	


we have the BOAR, and BOAR often refers to wild boar, so ideally check that the definition is exactly that of a wild boar (in boar), to make sure we don't add another wild boar to our concepticon. If boar is "male pig", leave wild boar...

boar in the concepticon list is "An adult male pig." I think it is a broad category.
In Marrison's data, he used "pig (wild)", so I think it might be good to add "wild boar" to specify the pig is not in captivity, and not a domestic animal. Also, it is not equal to feral pig, which describes the descended from escaped domesticated pig.
I will look into Marrison's thesis and see if he has further description about this lexical item.

This means I might have mismapped concepts in Sun's ZYYMC concept list -- if I remember, I also mapped to BOAR assuming it was WILD BOAR. Need to check.

Wu-Urbanek · 2018-04-12T14:06:08Z

By the way, I haven't linked the new concepts to my Marrison's concept list. I will add the new concepts as soon as possible when they are confirmed to be appropriated glosses.

…new concepts

tresoldi · 2018-04-12T14:21:03Z

concepticondata/concepticon.tsv

@@ -3148,3 +3148,4 @@ ID	GLOSS	SEMANTICFIELD	DEFINITION	ONTOLOGICAL_CATEGORY	REPLACEMENT_ID
 3152	MUNTJACS	Animals	Also known as barking deer, a kind of small deer of the genus Muntiacus.	Person/Thing	
 3153	LORD	Social and political relations	A man of noble rank or high office; a nobleman.	Person/Thing	
 3154	WILD BOAR	Animals	Also known as wild pig, an undomestic four-legged animal (Sus scrofa) living in the wild. 	Person/Thing	
+


You have a blank line at the bottom which needs to be deleted (Python's csv library works perfectly fine with this, but it is technically non-standard).

tresoldi · 2018-04-12T14:23:12Z

concepticondata/concepticon.tsv

@@ -3142,3 +3142,11 @@ ID	GLOSS	SEMANTICFIELD	DEFINITION	ONTOLOGICAL_CATEGORY	REPLACEMENT_ID
 3146	CHEETAH	Animals	Wild Animal of the cat family with characteristic dark spots.	Person/Thing	
 3147	HAMSTER	Animals	Mouse-sized animal with large cheeks for storing food, often kept as a pet.	Person/Thing	
 3148	MEERKAT	Animals	Southern African animal known for its long tail and often seen standing up on its back legs.	Person/Thing	
+3149	ARMLET	Clothing and grooming	A band or bracelet worn round the upper part of a person's arm.	Person/Thing	
+3150	BOX OR CHEST	Modern world	Either a generic manmade object with space in it that is used to keep and store many various different objects, or a strong box with a lid on top.	Property	
+3151	CUT (WITH AXE)	Basic actions and technology	To slice or to divide into pieces with help of an axe.	Person/Thing	


We already have so many words for "to cut" to make this one acceptable, too. We will however need to work on concept relations later -- I was just checking, not even WordNet is so specific (which makes sense, being English-centric after all).

chrzyki · 2018-04-13T08:01:18Z

concepticondata/conceptlists/Marrison-1967-909.tsv

+Marrison-1967-38	38	beam	1132	BEAM	2
+Marrison-1967-39	39	bean	832	BEAN	2
+Marrison-1967-40	40	bear (animal)	1820	BEAR	4
+Marrison-1967-41	41	bear (fruit)			4


Somewhat late to the party, sorry if this has already been mentioned. There are a number these duplicates/triplicates/... in the list, probably a leftover of the automated mapping step.

ok, working on it now.

chrzyki · 2018-04-13T08:03:59Z

concepticondata/conceptlists.tsv

@@ -39,12 +39,12 @@ Kessler-2001-200	Kessler, Brett	2001		200	basic	English	global		Kessler2001		Thi
 Gregersen-1976-217	Gregersen, Edgar A.	1976		217	basic	English	African		Gregersen1976	Gregersen1976	This concept list is based on a merger of several concept lists proposed by Swadesh. As the compiler mentions himself, the list is composed of all 200 items proposed in [Swadesh (1952)](:ref:Swadesh-1952-200), all additional items proposed in [Swadesh (1955)](:ref:Swadesh-1955-100), and [Swadeshs supplementary list of 100 items](:ref:Swadesh-1960-100). According to the annotation of the compiler, all items occuring in the 200-item list and the 100-item list are marked with one asterisk. All items occuring only in the 100-item list are marked with two asterisks, and all items makred with a preceding dash (—) occur only in the supplementary list.	110-116	
 Sato-2002-200	Sato, Tomomi	2002		200	areal,documentation	English	Ainu	http://hdl.handle.net/2115/34009	Sato2002	Sato2002	This list was taken from an article which cites basic vocabulary items from the Ainu dialect of Samani. It is not clear on which criteria the author selected the meaning list. He quotes work of Shirō Hattori ([1961](:bib:Hattori1961)), and lists data presented in an earlier dictionary compiled by Hattori, but it is not clear whether the selection of meanings was also based on previous work.	99-114	
 Lee-2013-200	Lee, S. and Hasegawa, T.	2013		200	basic	English,Japanese	Ainu		Lee2013		This list was used to study the evolution of the Ainu languages. It is almost completely identical with the list of [200 items by Hattori (1973)](:ref:Hattori-1973-200), but contains additional Japanese translations. The first author was so friendly to provide us with the concept list in digital form.		
-Swadesh-1954-97	Swadesh, Morris	1954		97	basic	English	American Indian languages		Swadesh1954	Swadesh1954	"According to Swadesh, this list of 97 items was extracted from a larger collection of 120 wordlists in American Indian languages. The 97 items which Swadesh labeled as &quot;non-cultural&quot; seem to be a compromise between coverage and useful items for language comparison, which would also explain the rather strange number of 97 concepts."	316-318	
+Swadesh-1954-97	Swadesh, Morris	1954		97	basic	English	American Indian languages		Swadesh1954	Swadesh1954	According to Swadesh, this list of 97 items was extracted from a larger collection of 120 wordlists in American Indian languages. The 97 items which Swadesh labeled as &quot;non-cultural&quot; seem to be a compromise between coverage and useful items for language comparison, which would also explain the rather strange number of 97 concepts.	316-318	


This is LibreOffice (or something else) wreaking havoc with the quotation marks. Happens multiple times further down the list.

ok, on it now.

tresoldi

You didn't set the TARGET_LANGUAGE field (is it "Naga"?)
I don't know your source, maybe it should also have areal as tag? @LinguList is the one to ask here
Just to be sure, is data available on STEDT? If it is, copy&paste it to the URL field
the REFS field is mandatory (also for generating the webpage), so you need both to fill it and to add the bibtex reference of your source to concepticondata/references/references.bib (sorry, I forgot to tell you this yesterday!). The reference must me cited in the description using Mattis' standard notation, as you can check for other concept lists. If possible, also add the PAGES field.

…e to reference.bib

tresoldi

It is still changing many lines in conceptlists.tsv. A suggestion would be to use standard command line tools to add only your line to your original, something like:

tail -n 1 yours/conceptlists.tsv > marrison
cat original/conceptlists.tsv marrison > yours/new_conceptlists.tsv

(this can be done in one line, but I can explain this to you step by step -- command line can be difficult and cryptic, but extremely powerful!)

LinguList · 2018-04-15T12:37:15Z

concepticondata/conceptlists/Marrison-1967-909.tsv

+Marrison-1967-909-38	38	beam	1132	BEAM	2
+Marrison-1967-909-39	39	bean	832	BEAN	2
+Marrison-1967-909-40	40	bear (animal)	1820	BEAR	4
+Marrison-1967-909-41	41	bear (fruit)			4


I suppose: leave both unlinked, (41 and the next). Too shaky what they mean with the meaning. And if you link one, you also have to link the other one, which makes it complicated.

ok, and by the way, I figure out that cut with axe actually is CHOP, so I will change it as well.

LinguList · 2018-04-15T12:38:47Z

concepticondata/conceptlists/Marrison-1967-909.tsv

+Marrison-1967-909-71	71	bless	391	BLESS	2
+Marrison-1967-909-72	72	blind	1653	BLIND	2
+Marrison-1967-909-73	73	blood	946	BLOOD	2
+Marrison-1967-909-74	74	blow	176	BLOW (WITH MOUTH)	2


this is unclear: could be blow (with mouth) or blow (of wind). So either leave it unlinked, or make a generic:

BLOW (WITH MOUTH OR OF WIND)

with the relations. This is a bad concept set then, but we often find that lists don't specify...

I will leave it unlink for now.

LinguList · 2018-04-15T12:40:22Z

concepticondata/conceptlists/Marrison-1967-909.tsv

+Marrison-1967-909-133	133	chicken	1318	CHICKEN	2
+Marrison-1967-909-134	134	chief	301	CHIEFTAIN	2
+Marrison-1967-909-135	135	child	2099	CHILD	2
+Marrison-1967-909-136	136	chillie			


I'd say this is http://concepticon.clld.org/parameters/919 (chili pepper). Did you check with source?

According to the orthography files I downloaded yesterday, it linked chillie to "Fruits and vegetables". so I will link it now.

LinguList · 2018-04-15T12:40:37Z

concepticondata/conceptlists/Marrison-1967-909.tsv

+Marrison-1967-909-150	150	comb	1475	COMB	2
+Marrison-1967-909-151	151	come	1446	COME	2
+Marrison-1967-909-152	152	cook	1100	COOK (SOMETHING)	2
+Marrison-1967-909-153	153	cook3			


is "cook3" in teh book?

It is not in the orthography file I downloaded, but it shows in the original file before mapping.

LinguList · 2018-04-15T12:42:13Z

concepticondata/conceptlists/Marrison-1967-909.tsv

+Marrison-1967-909-177	177	dark	706	DARK	2
+Marrison-1967-909-178	178	daughter	1357	DAUGHTER	2
+Marrison-1967-909-179	179	dawn	729	DAWN	2
+Marrison-1967-909-180	180	day	1260	DAY (24 HOURS)	2


more likely day (not night): http://concepticon.clld.org/parameters/1225 This is the expected default. We should think of adding a relation (DAY -> DAY (OT NIGHT), DAY -> DAY (24 hours)). But default is mostly DAY (NOT NIGHT), as the list also has "night"

LinguList · 2018-04-15T12:42:33Z

concepticondata/conceptlists/Marrison-1967-909.tsv

+Marrison-1967-909-184	184	deep	1593	DEEP	2
+Marrison-1967-909-185	185	deer (barking)	3152	MUNTJACS	4
+Marrison-1967-909-186	186	deer (generic)	1936	DEER	4
+Marrison-1967-909-187	187	deer (sambhur)	2456	LARGE WILD HERBIVORE	4


this is a specific deer, so leave it unlinked.

sambhur deer, right?

LinguList · 2018-04-15T12:44:06Z

concepticondata/conceptlists/Marrison-1967-909.tsv

+Marrison-1967-909-268	268	five	493	FIVE	2
+Marrison-1967-909-269	269	flat	1633	FLAT	2
+Marrison-1967-909-270	270	flea	232	FLEA	2
+Marrison-1967-909-271	271	flesh	2615	FLESH OR MEAT	2


link to http://concepticon.clld.org/parameters/2259 (FLESH)

LinguList · 2018-04-15T12:44:35Z

concepticondata/conceptlists/Marrison-1967-909.tsv

+Marrison-1967-909-279	279	follow	1085	FOLLOW	2
+Marrison-1967-909-280	280	food	256	FOOD	2
+Marrison-1967-909-281	281	fool	1438	FOOL	2
+Marrison-1967-909-282	282	foot	2098	FOOT OR LEG	2


link to foot alone, http://concepticon.clld.org/parameters/1301

LinguList · 2018-04-15T12:45:42Z

concepticondata/conceptlists/Marrison-1967-909.tsv

+Marrison-1967-909-329	329	half	816	HALF	2
+Marrison-1967-909-330	330	hand	1277	HAND	2
+Marrison-1967-909-331	331	hard	1884	HARD	2
+Marrison-1967-909-332	332	hat / helmet	771	HAT	4


inconsistent linking of 332 and 333: either make a new concept HAT OR HELMET, or leave unlinked (hat is not an important concept) (both number 332 and 333)

LinguList · 2018-04-15T12:46:24Z

concepticondata/conceptlists/Marrison-1967-909.tsv

+Marrison-1967-909-372	372	hungry	1533	BE HUNGRY	2
+Marrison-1967-909-373	373	hunt	1435	HUNT	2
+Marrison-1967-909-374	374	husband	1200	HUSBAND	2
+Marrison-1967-909-375	375	husk	2501	RICE HUSK	2


leave unlinked, as rice husk is too specific

LinguList · 2018-04-15T12:46:47Z

concepticondata/conceptlists/Marrison-1967-909.tsv

+Marrison-1967-909-367	367	hot	1286	HOT	2
+Marrison-1967-909-368	368	house	1252	HOUSE	2
+Marrison-1967-909-369	369	how	1239	HOW	2
+Marrison-1967-909-370	370	hudnred			


link to "hundred" (spelling error, therefore no suggestion).

There is 'hundred' below the entry already, so I keep it unlink for now

LinguList · 2018-04-15T12:48:55Z

concepticondata/conceptlists/Marrison-1967-909.tsv

+Marrison-1967-909-460	460	mad (insane)	1899	MAD	4
+Marrison-1967-909-461	461	maize	506	MAIZE	2
+Marrison-1967-909-462	462	make	734	MAKE	2
+Marrison-1967-909-463	463	man (male)	2106	MALE PERSON	2


maybe better http://concepticon.clld.org/parameters/1554, as MAN is the male person which is not young ("erwachsen"). Maybe check the reflexes in the URL above: if it links many othe rlists with "man/male" to this 1554, use 1554 MAN.

LinguList · 2018-04-15T12:51:02Z

concepticondata/conceptlists/Marrison-1967-909.tsv

+Marrison-1967-909-530	530	onion	2366	ONION	2
+Marrison-1967-909-531	531	only	1580	ONLY	2
+Marrison-1967-909-532	532	open	1156	OPEN	2
+Marrison-1967-909-533	533	orange	2627	ORANGE (FRUIT)	2


is orange the color or the fruit, can you find this out? if not, maybe rather leave unlinked?

the orthography file indicates fruits

LinguList · 2018-04-15T12:52:53Z

concepticondata/conceptlists/Marrison-1967-909.tsv

+Marrison-1967-909-539	539	owl	735	OWL	2
+Marrison-1967-909-540	540	owner	1036	OWNER	2
+Marrison-1967-909-541	541	pain	1783	PAIN	2
+Marrison-1967-909-542	542	palm (hand)			4


strange they have two concepts palm (hand) and palm (of hand). is this also in the dissertation? There are obviously more of these. Maybe because he made reconstructions? We can also link both 542 and 543 to PALM (HAND)

can we link both entries to the the same concepticon id? If so, I will link it

yes, we can, but only if they are as here, merely spelling differences

LinguList · 2018-04-15T12:53:42Z

concepticondata/conceptlists/Marrison-1967-909.tsv

+Marrison-1967-909-553	553	pierce	398	PIERCE	2
+Marrison-1967-909-554	554	pig (domestic)	1337	PIG	4
+Marrison-1967-909-555	555	pig (wild)	3154	WILD BOAR	4
+Marrison-1967-909-556	556	pig(wild)			4


see above: they have two pig (wild), so link both to WILD BOAR, it doesn't make sense otherwise.

LinguList · 2018-04-15T12:54:34Z

concepticondata/conceptlists/Marrison-1967-909.tsv

+Marrison-1967-909-574	574	pregnant	1123	PREGNANT	2
+Marrison-1967-909-575	575	prepare	2909	PREPARE	2
+Marrison-1967-909-576	576	press	1913	PRESS	2
+Marrison-1967-9


can you find out the part of speech? It may be more info in the diss. If not, leave as is: rain or rain is unspecific...

LinguList · 2018-04-15T12:55:12Z

concepticondata/conceptlists/Marrison-1967-909.tsv

+Marrison-1967-909-574	574	pregnant	1123	PREGNANT	2
+Marrison-1967-909-575	575	prepare	2909	PREPARE	2
+Marrison-1967-909-576	576	press	1913	PRESS	2
+Marrison-1967-9


don't we have ROAD as well?

LinguList · 2018-04-15T12:56:35Z

concepticondata/conceptlists/Marrison-1967-909.tsv

+Marrison-1967-909-574	574	pregnant	1123	PREGNANT	2
+Marrison-1967-909-575	575	prepare	2909	PREPARE	2
+Marrison-1967-909-576	576	press	1913	PRESS	2
+Marrison-1967-9


sure this is "smoke / inhale", not "smoke (exhaust)"?

LinguList · 2018-04-15T12:57:48Z

concepticondata/conceptlists/Marrison-1967-909.tsv

+Marrison-1967-909-574	574	pregnant	1123	PREGNANT	2
+Marrison-1967-909-575	575	prepare	2909	PREPARE	2
+Marrison-1967-909-576	576	press	1913	PRESS	2
+Marrison-1967-9


don't we have TORCH only?

LinguList · 2018-04-15T12:57:59Z

concepticondata/conceptlists/Marrison-1967-909.tsv

+Marrison-1967-909-574	574	pregnant	1123	PREGNANT	2
+Marrison-1967-909-575	575	prepare	2909	PREPARE	2
+Marrison-1967-909-576	576	press	1913	PRESS	2
+Marrison-1967-9


link also to TOP

LinguList

sorry, many notes, torturing you, but it's important to go at least once through this to see where to pay attention, and what our habits are in linking (learning by doing). Check specifically the OR cases, as there may be more specific concepts...

@misc

Keep @misc in the reference.bib, because it is not approved.

LinguList · 2018-04-15T13:02:05Z

Ah, and one more thing: delete the last column in the file. We don't need the "similarity scores"

Wu-Urbanek · 2018-04-15T13:17:33Z

Most of the requests were modified.
Please let me know if there are things that I missed.

LinguList · 2018-04-15T13:28:18Z

I'd say: if it passes, you can merge! Good work, enjoy the rest of the Sunday!

Wu-Urbanek added 3 commits April 12, 2018 15:02

adding Marrison concept list

b39695b

adding new concepts

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adding new concepts

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Wu-Urbanek closed this Apr 12, 2018

tresoldi reopened this Apr 12, 2018

tresoldi self-assigned this Apr 12, 2018

tresoldi added the new concept list label Apr 12, 2018

adding the bib data

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LinguList reviewed Apr 12, 2018

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Wu-Urbanek added 3 commits April 12, 2018 16:10

update Marrison concept list

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update Marrison data

587c2c1

update concepticon.tsv. Deleted newly added concepts, modifying some …

68b58ec

…new concepts

tresoldi reviewed Apr 12, 2018

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Wu-Urbanek added 2 commits April 12, 2018 16:42

delete the final blank line in concepticon.tsv

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Adding (Marrison,1967) to conceptlists.tsv

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chrzyki reviewed Apr 13, 2018

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tresoldi reviewed Apr 13, 2018

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Wu-Urbanek added 2 commits April 13, 2018 11:41

Update Marrison concept list, remove duplicated entries

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Modified the conceptlists.tsv, add Marrison entries. Add bib referenc…

875ad5d

…e to reference.bib

tresoldi reviewed Apr 13, 2018

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Wu-Urbanek added 2 commits April 13, 2018 13:59

modify conceptlists.tsv via commandline

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modify conceptlists.tsv, a full stop is added

eef99e9

Update reference.bib, try to change from MISC to Thesis

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LinguList reviewed Apr 15, 2018

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Update Marrison-1967-909, unlink bear fruit. link cut with axe to chop

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LinguList reviewed Apr 15, 2018

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Update Marrison-1967-909.tsv, link concepts and unlink some concepts.

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Keep @misc in the reference.bib, because it is not approved.

Wu-Urbanek added 2 commits April 15, 2018 15:09

Somehow conceptlists.tsv was untrack, add it back to track.

a2eb1bd

Update Marrison-1967-909, delete last column

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LinguList merged commit 2c3698d into concepticon:master Apr 15, 2018

Adding Marrison concept list #465

Adding Marrison concept list #465

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LinguList commented Apr 15, 2018

Wu-Urbanek commented Apr 15, 2018

LinguList commented Apr 15, 2018

tresoldi Apr 12, 2018 •

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tresoldi Apr 12, 2018 •

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tresoldi left a comment •

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